The Civilinic Books

Info: Diplomats and spies

Info: diplomats and spies - thread ( (discussion and instructions)

Table Of Contents
General Bribing cities Bribing units Comparison of Diplomat and Spy Short tips False statements

1.1 Certain amount of gold is deducted from the treasure of civ that bribes and NOT added to civ whose unit/city is bribed.
1.2 Cities and units are immune to bribery in democracy.
1.3 You don't lose movement point if you break off bribing (after you found out the cost of bribing).
1.4 Bribing from boats is allowed.
1.5 Dip/spy doesn't need shield support.
1.6 Dip/spy ignores ZOC.
1.7 All dips/spies produced in Communism are veterans.
1.8 7.2 and 1.7 and succesful defense against an attack (see 1.10) are ways how to get dip/spy with veteran status.
1.9 Low movement point (1/3 or 2/3) of dip/spy and low hit points of dip/spy doesn't neither prevent them from doing any action nor lower their chances.
1.10 Dip/spy has 0 attack points and 0 defense points. (0 defense doesn't mean dip/spy cannot win when defending. See the thread  Info: Combat (GL)
2. International incident
International incident is caused by following actions;
  • industrial sabotage
  • steal technology
  • incite a revolt (bribing without "subvert city" option)
  • poison water supply

bribing units and sabotage units has no effect on diplomacy

actions lower reputation and opponent is permitted to declare war without lowering his reputation.

2.13 International incident (and the decrease of reputation) may occur only if dip/spy is successful AND captured after completing her mission. A capture before a try, forestalling by enemy's dip/spy (see 11.2) and escape of the spy cause the international incident impossible.
2.14 2.13 has one exception: "Incite revolt" causes always an international incident.
2.15 If dip/spy's civilization has fundamentalism, then some advantages originate
incite a revolt causes incident
other actions peace no incident (a message "... publicly condemn terrorism" appears; you may ignore it)
alliance steal technology no incident (a message "we shall overlook this minor incident but do not let it happen again" appears; you may ignore it)
others causes incident

Nimrod:It also depends on your past relations with the civilisation applicable. If you've been friendly in the past, they are more likely to forgive future transgressions.

2.3 Expel spy
2.31 Any (overland, naval, aerial) offensive unit may expel other's dip/spy (it means to kick him of to his capital. What happens if capital doesnt exist?).
East Side Trader: I have had the expel diplo once or twice where there is no capital and the diplo just stayed put. But this was years ago so I am a long way from being sure that I'm remembering correctly.
SlowThinker:Quick test: Dip/spy is expelled into the nearest city.
If dip/spy's tribe has no city then nothing happen after a try to expel.
2.32 Movement points of unit that is expelling are not decreased, you may do it arbitrarily times with one unit in one turn.
2.33 You may expel dip/spy only if you have cease fire, peace or you are allied with dip/spy's civ. (If you have cease fire or peace, you may choose between attack and expel. If you are allied, you may just expel.)
Expelling doesn't cause an international incident and it doesn't affect attitude.
2.34 Stacked Dip/spy cannot be expelled.
2.35 You can expel a dip/spy ONLY if it is in your territory (it means he is closer to one of your
3. Bribing cities
3.2 Dip/Spy may bribe a city two ways: "incite revolt" or "subvert city". It is possible to subvert city only if you have cease fire, peace or you are allied. "Incite revolt" causes the international incident and causes disappearance of Temple, Courthouse and Cathedral and Hydro Plant in the city. "Subvert city" option don't have those drawbacks. The cost of bribing is doubled for the "Subvert city" option. Notes to the subvert city option:
Blaupanzer: Note, if you bribe troops or a double-cost "No incident" bribe of a city, the treaty with the owning civ often disappears.
Slowthinker:I have a suspicion that the cease fire always expires. Peace is cancelled sometimes.
3.3 After succesfull bribe of a city, the civ that did bribing gets a part of treasure of the civ that was bribed as a spoil and chooses one enemy's advance (the same effect as the capture by force). The formula for amount of gold taken as a plunder is

GP = S / (T + 1) * G

  GP = gold plundered
  S = size of the city (number of citizens) before capturing (before decreasing of city size by 1)
  T = total number of citizens of all cities (in the begining of turn)
  G = gold of civ whose city was captured (in the moment of capturing)
3.4 After succesfull bribe of a city, all units inside plus all units one square out of the city are bribed too and free of charge (they are never considered as stacked units). They don't get the NON-status.
3.5 It is not possible to bribe the capital (Generally, you cannot bribe a city if your dip/spy stands just beside the capital)
3.6 size of bribed city is decreased by 1. Size of 1-sized city is not decreased.
3.9 In which case a partisan arises after bribing a city?Newest test: Dip/spy's civ has acquired Guerilla Warfare AND civ being bribed has acquired Guerilla Warfare AND Conscription.
How does the program determine the number of partisans a given city produces?
The manual:After you discover Guerrilla Warfare, the number of Partisans you receive when one of your cities is captured increases, while the number of Partisans your opponents receive when you capture one of their cities decreases.
The number of Partisans that appears is based on a number of factors (random and otherwise), but the general rule is that the bigger the city, the more Partisans you receive at the time the city is captured.
debate: Partisans
Partisans don't arise for the "subvert city" option.
Formula for bribing cities

GR = DF * GF * S

  GR = gold required to bribe 
  S = size of the city
  DF =1000 / (D+3)       (distance factor)
  GF = 1+G / 1000        (gold factor)
  G = gold of civ that is bribed
  D = the distance between dip/spy and the capital of civ that is bribed (see 3.11; see 4.31-4.35)
Besides, GR may be multiplied by following numbers (these modifiers are cumulative):
  5/6 or 2/3 if a spy or veteran spy is bribing
  1/2 if city is in disorder
  1/2 if no units are in city
  1/2 if bribing civ was the last owner of the city prior to its current owner. Xin Yu:Suppose Chinese destroyed Roman, then occupied English's capital. The English empire splitted into two--English and Russia. Now will the English be able to bribe Russian cities for half price? Will the Russian be able to bribe Chinese cities (which were occupied Roman cities--same color) for half price? I think the answer to the second question is (ridicularly) yes, but I'm not sure about the first.
  2 if you "subvert city"
3.10 Notes Bribing from distance D=1 is not allowed.
max. D>  government of the civ whose city is bribed 
Government (communism) of a civ of the dip/spy has no effect for bribing of cities. (see 4.10))
3.12 If courthouse is in the city then
  1. if needed, distance S is pruned to maximal value (16 or 10 for communism), 
2. then halved and rounded down.
3.13 If capital does not exist then distance is always considered as maximal (16 or 10).
3.20 Bribing barbarian cities:
Formula 3.1 applies (there is usually no barbarian gold (G=0) and no barbarian capital (S=16; see 3.23)). There is no price halved as I stated before, but "city was yours before" applies if needed.) All aditional modifiers apply if you take following notes into account:
3.21 Disorder never originates in barbarian cities. (??) 
3.22 It is not possible to subvert a barbarian city (I suppose diplomatic relationship with barbarians is ever considered as "no contact" or "war" ).
3.23 Barbarians never have techs (??), and so they can't be under communism (see 3.11)
4. Bribing units
4.2 Stacked units cannot be bribed or sabotaged. A unit is stacked if it share one square with ANY other(s) (overland, naval, aerial) unit.
4.3 Dip/spy may be bribed the same way as other units.
4.4 You get a non-unit if you bribe a unit that is closer to an enemy city than any your city.
4.5 Dip/spy moves to the point where bribed unit stays and loses only corresponding number of movement points. The bribed unit is available immediately and has full number of movement points, but its injury is not healed.
4.6 Unit residing in a city cannot be bribed (i. e. cannot be bribed separately, only with all city).
4.7 Formula for bribing units:

GR = DF * GF * S

  GR = gold required to bribe 
  S = shield cost of the unit (see 4.13)
  DF = 37.5 / (D+2)     (distance factor)
  GF = 1+G / 750        (gold factor)
  G = gold of civ that is bribed
  D = the distance between unit that is bribed and his capital (see 4.10; see 4.31-4.35);
4.10 Notes Maximal values for the distance "D":
max. D  government of the civ of dip/spy
Government(communism) of a civ whose units are bribed has no effect for bribing of units. (see 3.11) )
4.11 Unlike bribing cities, the cost for bribing unit is the same for dip/spy and doesn't depend on veteran status.
4.12 If capital does not exist then distance is always considered as maximal (16 or 10).
4.13 The cost to bribe units with a role=5 (settler, engineer) is double that of other units.
4.20 Bribing barbarian units: Formula 4.1 applies (there is usually no barbarian gold (G=0) and no barbarian capital).
Way to measure distance between a unit and the capital (use in both bribing-formulas (3.1 and 4.1)):
4.31 Imagine Civ2-map turned by 45 degrees. Then you see that map is a simple grid of squares. Then use 4.32 or 4.33 (both are equal).
4.32 Take the "rectangle" defined by the position of the unit and the position of the city (all sides of rectangle are built by squares connected by lines, not by by edges).

distance = (length of longer side of rectangle) + 0.5 * (length of shorter side of rectangle)

Only integer part of distance is considered.
4.33 Take the "rhomboid" defined by the position of the unit and the position of the city (two sides of rhomboid are built by squares connected by lines ("straight sides" ), other two sides are built by squares connected by edges ("diagonal sides" ); note: the rhomboid is included in the rectangle that came up in 4.33).

distance = (length of straight side of rhomboid) + 1.5 * (length of diagonal side of rhomboid) .

Only integer part of distance is considered.
4.35 This method of measuring the distance between two squares is valid for all Civilization.
Distance 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
unit 125 93.5 75 62.5 53.5 46.5 41.5 37.5 34 31 28.5 26.5 25 23 22 20.5
city (dip) N/A 200 166 142 125 11 100 90 83 76 71 66 62 58 55 52
city (spy) N/A 167 139 119 105 93 84 75 70 64 60 55 52 50 46 44
city (vet spy) N/A 134 111 95 84 74 67 60 56 51 48 44 42 39 37 35
  2nd row applies to formula 4.1 (10 shield-unit, 0 gold),
3rd to 5th rows apply to 3.1 (1-sized city, 0 gold).
Comparison of Diplomat and Spy
Diplomat Action Spy
1 visibility 2
2 moving rate 3
not lost
bribe unit yes
not lost
N/A sabotage unit may be lost
lost establish embassy not lost
lost investigate city not lost
no choice
success guarr. if no dip/spy in city
once per city
steal technology "first time in city"
choice ("specify advance" ) or
no choice ("any will do" )
success guarr. if no dip/spy in city (see 7.2)
once per city
may be lost
"next in city"
may not to be successful
any times per city
may be lost
no choice
success guaranteed
industrial sabotage "use her judgement"
no choice
success guaranteed
may be lost(lower probability)
"give primary target"
choice of target
may not to be successful
may be lost(higher probability)
full price
incite a revolt 5/6 (2/3 if veteran) of price
N/A poison water supply may be lost
N/A plant nuclear device may not to be successful
may be lost
5.2 Success (I don't mean survival) is guaranteed if noticed in the table and for following actions:
bribe unit, sabotage unit, establish embassy, investigate city, incite a revolt/subvert city (full success: with gold and advance plunder),poison water supply.
7. About spy in general 7.1 It is possible to divide spy's mission into three parts:
Firstly, a spy may be or may not to be captured before completing her mission.
  her attempt may be foiled by enemy dip/spy positioned in the city for steal technology/"any will do" mission only (see 11.2)
  she completes mission for all other missions
Thirdly, she may be or may not to be captured after completing her mission.
??? I never saw a dip/spy to be foiled in technology/"specify advance" mission 7.3 Spy may be lost (captured) in all dangerous actions (i.e. actions where a spy may be captured ): sabotage unit, steal technology, industrial sabotage, incite a revolt/subvert city, poison water supply. If she is not lost in that action, then she is moved to her nearest city, she gets veteran status and she loses remaining movements points. 7.4 Veterans are 50% more effective than non-vets when they perform any task.

SlowThinker: hmm, hmm...really ANY? Sabotage unit 8.1 Spy may sabotage enemy's units. Attacked unit lose a half of remaining hit points (rounded down, not affected by veteran status). 8.11 How is the probability that a spy will survive a sabotage? (50%?) Does it depend on the Vet status? 9. Establish embassy. Contrary to what the menu says, establishing an embassy costs a spy 1/3 of a movemen. Investigate city 10.1 Contrary to what the menu says, investigating a city costs a spy 1/3 of a movement point. 11. Steal technology 11.1 Once you steal technology from certain city (with spy or diplomat), this city gets a flag that affects all next (for all remaining game??) tries (of ALL civs) to steal technology from this city: diplomats are prevented from doing it and spies are not able to precise an advance (citizens are "vigilent and wary" ).

Xin Yu:Some flags do disappear over time. I once had a civ occupied my city, but after several turns I could not buy it back for half price. I wonder there is a small chance each turn to eliminate the 'previous civ' flag. This could be also true for 'tech stolen' flag, or even trade merchandise availability. 11.2 Diplomats and Spies stationed in cities have a chance to thwart "steal technology" attempts by enemy diplomats/spies (message: "espionage attempt foiled..." ). Diplomat (or veteran diplomat) has a 20% chance to do so per attempt, spy have 40%, veteran spy 60%.
This feature is cumulated: for example, chance to steal with one diplomat in the city is 0.8 (100%-20%=80%), with one vet spy is 0.4. Therefore, the chance to steal is 12.8% (0.128=0.8*0.4*0.4) if one dip and two vet spies are in the city.
See 7.2 11.3 Dip/spy is useless against all other (except 11.2) actions of opponent's dips/spies(?). Steal technology/"specify advance" mission too?? 11.4 If dip/spy is not succesfull due to 11.2, then dip/spy lose his remaining movement points only. No other effect: dip/spy survive and no international incident occurs. 11.5 Unknown: A sentried spy is as valuable as a fortified spy against espionage attempts. (However, you may prefer to have it fortified. Please see the threads about "veteran diplomats and spies".)(I don't understand it well. I found it in one Civ2-strategy-archived thread. But I didn't find a "veteran diplomats and spies" thread. I think that archived threads are sometimes lost.)

Smash: a diplomat seems to stand a better chance at thwarting if they are in "sleep" mode. Don't think this effects inciting revolts though. 11.6 If there is no technology to steal then dip/spy lose 1 movement point. No other effect. 11.12 Does success and survival of spy depend on number of thefts from a specific city? (is there "more flags"?) 11.13 How is probability to survive/to be succesfull in each situation (specify advance, first theft in a city, additional theft)? Do probabilities depend on those situations or not? 11.15 How veteran status affects success and survival? 11.16 How dip/spy choose an advance to steal? By "AI value" in rules.txt? Do city walls affect  probabilities?

The Mad Viking: My son pointed out that his spies more often get captured when stealing tech / sabotaging a city that has walls. I have started paying attention to this and think he may be right. 12. Industrial sabotage Thorough discussion and tests about sabotage are here:

debate: In response to the sabotage thing
Poisoning and sabotaging 12.1 An improvement will be destroyed or shield production will be set to zero ("production sabotaged" ). 12.2 It is not possible to sabotage SDI Defense, Palace a nd WoW's.

My Wife Hates CIV: hmmm.... out of more than 100 tests, I did destroy an SDI with a spy unit. ?? I can't figure out how to repeat it. It does not seem to matter what size the city is, techs the target civ has, units present or not... strange.
I setup a city size 1, gave it a SDI. Placed another CIV spy next to it and tried. 'SDI complex destroyed'. I was going to take a screen shot but figured it was easy to repeat again. I'm still playing with it. 12.3 With a spy you may choose between "give primary target" or "use her judgement".
("Primary target" is not an exact expression, "only target" would be better: spy will never try to sabotage other thing than primary target.) 12.4 If there is no improvement you can sabotage in the city, then dip or spy+"use her judgement" will repeatedly sabotage the production, although shield progress may be 0. You won't have the option between "give primary target" and "use her judgement" if spy is sabotaging. 12.5 Dip or spy+"use her judgement" will never sabotage a production if shield progress is 0 (except 12.4): it means only one such attack per turn. 12.13 Probability that spy+"use her judgement" will be captured is 50% for a non-vet spy and 25% for a vet spy. 12.11 What is the probability that spy+"give primary target" will be successfull? What is the probability that spy+"give primary target" will be lost?(20%?) 12.14 What is the probability that diplomat/spy+"use her judgement" will choose to sabotage production? 12.15 Do all improvements have the same probability to be chosen for a diplomat/spy+"use her judgement" sabotage? 12.16 How veteran status affects success and survival?

> Scouse Gits says it affects success 12.17 If you choose "give primary target" against the capital or walled city, then a message "Attempting sabotage in enemy capital or against city walls is very risky" appears. How much it lowers probability of a success? Have city walls and capital similar effect in other types of missions? 13. Poison water supply 13.1 Spy may "Poison water supply" in a city. It decreases city size by 1. 13.2 It is not possible to poison if size of city is 1. 13.3 Probability that spy will be captured is 33% for a vet spy (doesn't depend on the capital status), 50% for a non-vet spy attacking non-capital,  67% for a non-vet spy attacking capital. 14. Plant nuclear device 14.1 Not compiled yet.

Spys and nuclear devices?
Sabotaging SDI Defenses 21. Short tips 21.1 You may find out the position of enemy's capital using formulas determining amount of gold for bribing. (And remember 1.3) 21.2 Don't forget to 4.4. 21.3 Terrain doesn't affect bribing cost. Bribe preferentially units/cities on rough terrain. 21.4 A useful trick when you want your spy/diplomat home quickly is to have it expelled. 21.5 Summary for bribing cities: Destroy courthouse, destroy enough happiness improvements to make the the city go into revolt, buy from the side of the city away from the capital, use a vet spy to buy. 31 False statements It is not true that 31.1 expelling is available in deity only. 3.1.2 a number of happy citizen and unexpired wonders raises the bribery cost. 31.3. if enemy has no palace then distance = 32
vet staus of a dip has effect on the bribing cost (source:Scrolls of Ancient Wisdom (Winkler) . See 3.13 and 3.1. 3.14 dip and spy may only be expelled when they are in your territory, which is in this case defined as being nearer to one of your cities than to one of its own (source: original message in Civ2 game). "ANY other civilization" in 2.34 is important. 3.15 cost of bribe of partisan is upped. 3.16 only diplomats (not spies) causes a flag mentioned in 1.11. 3.17 In formula 3.1 (formula for bribing cities), instead of "if dip/spy's civ was the last owner of the city before the curent owner" it should be, "city was founded by you" In other words, you don't get a discount if you capture a city, lose it, and bribe it back