Info: diplomats and spies - thread (apolyton.net) (discussion and instructions)
|Table Of Contents|
|General||Bribing cities||Bribing units||Comparison of Diplomat and Spy||Short tips||False statements|
|1.1||Certain amount of gold is deducted from the treasure of civ that bribes and NOT added to civ whose unit/city is bribed.|
|1.2||Cities and units are immune to bribery in democracy.|
|1.3||You don't lose movement point if you break off bribing (after you found out the cost of bribing).|
|1.4||Bribing from boats is allowed.|
|1.5||Dip/spy doesn't need shield support.|
|1.6||Dip/spy ignores ZOC.|
|1.7||All dips/spies produced in Communism are veterans.|
|1.8||7.2 and 1.7 and succesful defense against an attack (see 1.10) are ways how to get dip/spy with veteran status.|
|1.9||Low movement point (1/3 or 2/3) of dip/spy and low hit points of dip/spy doesn't neither prevent them from doing any action nor lower their chances.|
|1.10||Dip/spy has 0 attack points and 0 defense points. (0 defense doesn't mean dip/spy cannot win when defending. See the thread Info: Combat (GL)|
|2. International incident|
|International incident is caused by following actions;|
bribing units and sabotage units has no effect on diplomacy
actions lower reputation and opponent is permitted to declare war without lowering his reputation.
|2.13||International incident (and the decrease of reputation) may occur only if dip/spy is successful AND captured after completing her mission. A capture before a try, forestalling by enemy's dip/spy (see 11.2) and escape of the spy cause the international incident impossible.|
|2.14||2.13 has one exception: "Incite revolt" causes always an international incident.|
|2.15||If dip/spy's civilization has fundamentalism, then some advantages originate
Nimrod:It also depends on your past relations with the civilisation applicable. If you've been friendly in the past, they are more likely to forgive future transgressions.
|2.3 Expel spy|
|2.31||Any (overland, naval, aerial) offensive unit may expel other's dip/spy (it
means to kick him of to his capital. What
happens if capital doesnt exist?).|
East Side Trader: I have had the expel diplo once or twice where there is no capital and the diplo just stayed put. But this was years ago so I am a long way from being sure that I'm remembering correctly.
SlowThinker:Quick test: Dip/spy is expelled into the nearest city.
If dip/spy's tribe has no city then nothing happen after a try to expel.
|2.32||Movement points of unit that is expelling are not decreased, you may do it arbitrarily times with one unit in one turn.|
expel dip/spy only if you have cease fire, peace or you are allied
with dip/spy's civ. (If you have cease fire or peace, you may choose
between attack and expel. If you are allied, you may just expel.)
Expelling doesn't cause an international incident and it doesn't affect attitude.
|2.34||Stacked Dip/spy cannot be expelled.|
|2.35||You can expel a dip/spy ONLY if it is in your territory (it means he is closer to one of your|
|3. Bribing cities|
Dip/Spy may bribe a city two ways: "incite revolt"
or "subvert city".
It is possible to subvert city only if you have cease
fire, peace or you are allied.
"Incite revolt" causes the international incident and
causes disappearance of Temple, Courthouse and Cathedral and
Hydro Plant in the city.
"Subvert city" option don't have those drawbacks.
The cost of bribing is doubled for the "Subvert city"
Notes to the subvert city option:|
Blaupanzer: Note, if you bribe troops or a double-cost "No incident" bribe of a city, the treaty with the owning civ often disappears.
Slowthinker:I have a suspicion that the cease fire always expires. Peace is cancelled sometimes.
|3.3||After succesfull bribe of a city, the civ that did bribing gets
a part of treasure of the civ that was bribed as a spoil
and chooses one enemy's advance (the same effect as the
capture by force). The formula for amount of gold taken
as a plunder is
GP = S / (T + 1) * GWhere
|3.4||After succesfull bribe of a city, all units inside plus all units one square out of the city are bribed too and free of charge (they are never considered as stacked units). They don't get the NON-status.|
|3.5||It is not possible to bribe the capital (Generally, you cannot bribe a city if your dip/spy stands just beside the capital)|
|3.6||size of bribed city is decreased by 1. Size of 1-sized city is not decreased.|
|3.9||In which case a partisan arises after bribing a city?Newest test: Dip/spy's civ has acquired Guerilla Warfare AND civ being bribed has acquired Guerilla Warfare AND Conscription.|
|How does the program determine the number of partisans a given city produces?|
|The manual:After you discover Guerrilla Warfare, the number of Partisans you receive when one of your cities is captured increases, while the number of Partisans your opponents receive when you capture one of their cities decreases.|
|The number of Partisans that appears is based on a number of factors (random and otherwise), but the general rule is that the bigger the city, the more Partisans you receive at the time the city is captured.|
|Partisans don't arise for the "subvert city" option.|
|Formula for bribing cities|
GR = DF * GF * S
|Besides, GR may be multiplied by following numbers (these modifiers are cumulative):|
|3.10 Notes||Bribing from distance D=1 is not allowed.|
|Government (communism) of a civ of the dip/spy has no effect for bribing of cities. (see 4.10))|
|3.12||If courthouse is in the city then|
|3.13||If capital does not exist then distance is always considered as maximal (16 or 10).|
|3.20||Bribing barbarian cities:|
Formula 3.1 applies (there is usually no barbarian gold (G=0) and no barbarian capital (S=16; see 3.23)). There is no price halved as I stated before, but "city was yours before" applies if needed.) All aditional modifiers apply if you take following notes into account:
|3.21||Disorder never originates in barbarian cities. (??)|
|3.22||It is not possible to subvert a barbarian city (I suppose diplomatic relationship with barbarians is ever considered as "no contact" or "war" ).|
|3.23||Barbarians never have techs (??), and so they can't be under communism (see 3.11)|
|4. Bribing units|
|4.2||Stacked units cannot be bribed or sabotaged. A unit is stacked if it share one square with ANY other(s) (overland, naval, aerial) unit.|
|4.3||Dip/spy may be bribed the same way as other units.|
|4.4||You get a non-unit if you bribe a unit that is closer to an enemy city than any your city.|
|4.5||Dip/spy moves to the point where bribed unit stays and loses only corresponding number of movement points. The bribed unit is available immediately and has full number of movement points, but its injury is not healed.|
|4.6||Unit residing in a city cannot be bribed (i. e. cannot be bribed separately, only with all city).|
|4.7 Formula for bribing units:|
GR = DF * GF * SWhere
|4.10 Notes||Maximal values for the distance "D":|
|Government(communism) of a civ whose units are bribed has no effect for bribing of units. (see 3.11) )|
|4.11||Unlike bribing cities, the cost for bribing unit is the same for dip/spy and doesn't depend on veteran status.|
|4.12||If capital does not exist then distance is always considered as maximal (16 or 10).|
|4.13||The cost to bribe units with a role=5 (settler, engineer) is double that of other units.|
|4.20 Bribing barbarian units:||Formula 4.1 applies (there is
usually no barbarian gold (G=0) and no barbarian capital).|
Way to measure distance between a unit and the capital (use in both bribing-formulas (3.1 and 4.1)):
|4.31||Imagine Civ2-map turned by 45 degrees. Then you see that map is a simple grid of squares. Then use 4.32 or 4.33 (both are equal).|
|4.32||Take the "rectangle" defined by the position of the unit
and the position of the city (all sides of rectangle are
built by squares connected by lines, not by by edges).|
distance = (length of longer side of rectangle) + 0.5 * (length of shorter side of rectangle)Only integer part of distance is considered.
|4.33||Take the "rhomboid" defined by the position of the unit
and the position of the city (two sides of rhomboid are
built by squares connected by lines ("straight sides"
), other two sides are built by squares connected by
edges ("diagonal sides" ); note: the rhomboid
is included in the rectangle that came up in 4.33).|
distance = (length of straight side of rhomboid) + 1.5 * (length of diagonal side of rhomboid) .
Only integer part of distance is considered.
|4.35||This method of measuring the distance between two squares is valid for all Civilization.|
applies to formula 4.1 (10 shield-unit, 0 gold),
3rd to 5th rows apply to 3.1 (1-sized city, 0 gold).
|Comparison of Diplomat and Spy|
|5.2||Success (I don't mean survival) is guaranteed if noticed in the table and for following actions: |
bribe unit, sabotage unit, establish embassy, investigate city, incite a revolt/subvert city (full success: with gold and advance plunder),poison water supply.
|her attempt may be foiled by enemy dip/spy positioned in the city||for steal technology/"any will do" mission only (see 11.2)|
|she completes mission||for all other missions|
SlowThinker: hmm, hmm...really ANY?
Xin Yu:Some flags do disappear over time. I once had a civ occupied my city, but after several turns I could not buy it back for half price. I wonder there is a small chance each turn to eliminate the 'previous civ' flag. This could be also true for 'tech stolen' flag, or even trade merchandise availability.
Smash: a diplomat seems to stand a better chance at thwarting if they are in "sleep" mode. Don't think this effects inciting revolts though.
The Mad Viking: My son pointed out that his spies more often get captured when stealing tech / sabotaging a city that has walls. I have started paying attention to this and think he may be right.
In response to the sabotage thing
Poisoning and sabotaging
Hates CIV: hmmm.... out of more than 100 tests, I did
destroy an SDI with a spy unit. ?? I can't figure out how
to repeat it. It does not seem to matter what size the
city is, techs the target civ has, units present or not...
I setup a city size 1, gave it a SDI. Placed another CIV spy next to it and tried. 'SDI complex destroyed'. I was going to take a screen shot but figured it was easy to repeat again. I'm still playing with it.
> Scouse Gits says it affects success
Spys and nuclear devices?
Sabotaging SDI Defenses